Episode 16: Eric Cordeiro - BP Worlds Recap, Drug Testing & Wearing Multiple Hats

Josh Rohr: welcome back to the USA Power Lifting Podcast. We are joined by a man of many hats, Eric Cordeiro. Eric, how's it going? Eric Cordeiro: Going pretty well today. How about yourself? Josh Rohr: not too bad. So the reason I wanted to have you on is to kind of get I don't know, kind of the perspective of somebody that does wear all the hats. Like you're a lifter, you're a coach, you're you know what? What what are who are you? Why don't we do that? Eric Cordeiro: that well, that's a very big question, who I am. But so my name's Eric Cordeiro. I've been involved with USA powerlifting for about I guess twenty-five years now. I started off really as a fan of the sport, right? I think in the nineties my life was not in the spot of being a competitor, and I found out that powerlifting through actually my high school girlfriend's uncle and just Used to buy the magazines and going back into the nineties and just training. and then in the early two thousands decided that I actually wanted to start competing. started competing. since then I've become heavily involved in the organization over the years. I've you know, first started running the high school championships again here in Massachusetts, which initially we've been ran s in the nineteen eighties and then took a couple of years off in the early two thousands and I re ignited that and then became a ref and then running more meets and over time became state chair. in twenty three two twenty twenty three I became a member of the executive committee. actually prior to that and I know this is part of our conversation prior to that I was asked to serve on the international committee with that USA USA powerlifting had started to, you know, engage outside of the US with other countries. I on top of that, I probably my most passionate thing I think people know me, is coaching. I coach a high school team. I've coached a high school team since two thousand and three. you know, for years it was fairly small, anywhere from five to at maybe a couple dozen kids at the most, maybe twenty at the most. And in more recent years, especially since COVID, I'm at Boston Latin now. I've taught at three different schools. I've been here for ten years and my my teams right now are average around fifty to seventy kids a year. So Josh Rohr: Awesome. Well, Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. Josh Rohr: the thing I wanna start with is Eric the Lifter. You just got back from Iceland. You competed at the ID FPA bench worlds, correct? Eric Cordeiro: Correct. Josh Rohr: Well, start there. How'd that go? What what was the experience like? Eric Cordeiro: So, I I haven't I know I'm pretty sure Josh, you've done international as well when we were younger. I I think I have not been had a chance to be in an international meet with international lifters since two thousand seventeen, North Americans. And it's just it's such a different feeling, you know, going to a place competing with people from all over the world. That have that same goal, right? To get stronger, to win, and passionate about the sport. but also just that kind of cultural difference. How do they approach not only just how they approach the sport itself, but how do they approach life, right? And and that was a big part of being in Iceland is just that different cultural experience, right? you know, and and that's something that a lot of us on the team had talked about, you know, what what does it look like a a powerlifting meet look like in Iceland compared to a powerlifting meet in the United States or how do they approach, just just training or or just life in general. And the conversations you have over there is phenomenal, just to get to know people from that again, th that are not, you know, insular to the un the US and and thinking about how we think about things. my own personal sorry the my own personal Performance was okay. one of the reasons I actually tried to qualify to go was because I knew I had to go anyways. So I said, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna go anyways, I might as well compete. my numbers are all right. You know, I I ended up benching one sixty seven and a half keys in the M2 category at ninety. I miss I missed my third bench at one seventy two and a half. my benches will have been a little bit off, but you know, considering again, I I don't think people realize how hard it is to travel, do that travel time, make weight, right? you know, you see this at nationals, right? where it's easy to wake up and go to a local meet and drive around the corner or drive an hour away and you've been sleeping in your same bed and the same scale and all that stuff. But when you go off and compete nationally and then especially internationally when you have five hour flights and and driving and and different beds and different food, you know, that is it's harder to do, right? it it's harder to know exactly where you're at body wise, and you know, the performances sometimes show that as well, right? So Josh Rohr: Yeah. So, follow up question. Your first meet was May two thousand two, correct? And Eric Cordeiro: Correct, yeah. Josh Rohr: you have competed in twenty eight meets over that span of now then till now. Eric Cordeiro: I think it's I I think it's yeah, I think I Josh Rohr: According to open powerlifting. There may be some missing out of there. Eric Cordeiro: I think open powerlifting's missing one meet at least one meet, but yeah, right. So yeah, you know, I've I've started off as a competitor. And you know, one of the funny things that I tell people now is that, you know, when I started there was luckily a meet a year, right? A meet or two a year when we started, right? Like we around here we had you know, whatever New England Open and and Massachusetts State Championships. And that was it. Right. there's a couple of the states that had some meets here and there, but they're scattered. Maine was a little active and then died out. So it was really hard to find meets at that time period, right? Especially if you wanted to lift USA powerlifting. and and probably kind of a a little bit of downturn at at the point of just powerlifting in general. but, you know, yeah, I mean, so I started competing then, you know, and and it was really you know, just to share personal side of this is it was really I I had ac actually kids by then. my wife and I actually had my first son. And again, like I'd said before, I'd started off as a fan of the sport and you know, after after nine eleven I I kinda really felt like I I needed to do something my own life to just drive my own goals, you know, push myself a little bit more. I think that was kind of a wake up for me, in two thousand one and you know, went to powerlifting USA and found meet and realize I needed a membership. And by the end of, you get your membership early and you it carries over. So in the end of 2001, I bought a membership and then sent in, mailed in my form in my in my bank check because the meet director, Greg Costas, wouldn't take personal checks, obviously for, you know, bouncing checks for years. you know, and you know, I had a great experience with that. and then try to compete. for the most part for the next couple of years and in the two ish meets we had locally. and then I got hurt at a certain point and you know, just hurt my back and took some time off. and then started coaching, which also, you know, between coaching a and anybody who has kids too, right? So I had coaching, my daughter was born in two thousand four. So there's just that juggling of life responsibilities and trying to compete and lift. Josh Rohr: Yeah, what's the I guess so you you have again, you're you're in a lot of different avenues of powerlifting, leadership, coaching, all those things. Like, how do you still find time to train? How do you still find the desire to train? Like so for me, ex as an example, like some of these things just make me unmotivated to train, unmotivated to compete. Is it just as simple like you're just you're just better than me? Is that it? Eric Cordeiro: I don't think I'm better than anybody. but but I I also think that's a big part of the sport. I think this this idea that, you know, the this is what I always tell everybody, that anybody can be involved in the sport. And in the end, it's you against the bar and it's you in your individual goals. But you know, I have taken time off, right? and I think that's been valuable. And I think I think a lot of people miss that value of taking time off, right? So I have stopped competing at certain points. I have, you know, be honest with you, actually, I came out of nationals, equipped nationals last year, and I might have squatted twice in six months. I just was burnt out, right? And and I found that throughout my career, right? This just time where yes, training sucks. You don't want to take the time to do it. you have other things you can do. but I always f seem to find my way back somehow, right? you know, coaching is hard. You know, so this week we started with our our new in new lifters this week. So I had forty-five kids show up on Monday and s and Tuesday on top of my 29 lifters that are already on the team, returners. And I haven't, I haven't trained since I got back from Iceland. I just haven't had the the energy. I've been wiped out just dealing with that. So the in season the high school, it's always harder to train. you know, I find ways to do it, I squeeze stuff in. I also real have realized over the years that training's not perfect. You know, when I was in my twenties and early thirties, I was so obsessed, and I think you see this a lot with lifters, right? Like It didn't matter where you were. If you were on vacation, you tried to find a gym, right? You tried to train for that. you know, it i I would bring bands with me on trips, you know, I remember going on a cruise and I was like, all right, I need to f figure a way to to still train on this cruise and get all the heavy weights in. And what I've realized I've gotten older, it's like training sometimes can wait, and right. And sometimes that's better for your body. All right. Sometimes, you know, you you you schedule around other things. so that obsession of lifting four or five times a week, that obsession on vacation all the time, and and finding a place to train and working around that atmosphere, I realized for at least myself, and maybe not other people, but I think for most people is a little unhealthy, right? the reason we do this is because we want to be fit, we want to be healthy, we want we want to be involved, but you know, that that is still you you still have a life to live and and I think that's important for most people do. And I and I I to take that a little further, I think that's why people burn out of the sport so fast, right? Josh, I know you you and I s you've been a little bit longer sport, but we've seen tons of lifters that, were hugely b big, had huge numbers and last, five years and then you never see fr them from again, right? And I think that that I don't think that's healthy for the sport in general either. Right. So Josh Rohr: Yeah, and I think, just to to piggyback on that, I I think you kinda I don't know, you said something, it's but it's like when training becomes like your job, it bec you lose the joy in it. And I think that's the that's the part that people miss is like most of us started this because we enjoy the working out. And if we've now made the sport around the competitions and everything else except the competitions, is our job to do the competition that just changes the whole perspective and makes it not fun. So that's that's Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, yeah. Josh Rohr: been my perspective for myself at least. sometimes I find I'm just like, I I'm putting it too much on a putting the meet up on a pedestal or whatever, however you say it. And it's just like, why can't I just go in and train and have fun? Like and then, you know, go from there. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, and I I think I've hit that point a little bit more, right? I'm a little older than you, just slightly. Josh Rohr: A little bit Eric Cordeiro: but you know, I I have I I've came to that realization really only about five or six years ago, right? And when I realized like in the numbers are gonna be whatever the numbers are and I I should have fun and the meets a lot more right and not obsess and stuff and you know, there's been good training cycles and bad training cycles. So but yeah, I mean it it's it's it's definitely healthy to to kind of detach yourself to to always wanting to be better. you know, and sometimes, you know, I it's funny, as coach I deal with this with cook lifters all the time. why am I better than this other person or I work so hard and how come I can't get there? And I I've struggled that with myself, right? I feel like I'd train enough and how come I can only do so much weight and it it it's hard sometimes for us to realize that it you know, that whole I tell my kids all the time, training's not linear, training's not linear, you're not gonna just keep getting stronger. But like it you know, personally that's always hard to take. Do you know what I mean? Josh Rohr: Yep. Yep. A hundred percent. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. Josh Rohr: Yeah, that's that's all that's always my joke, is Josh the coach can can tell people things objectively, but Josh the Lifter is a moron and doesn't doesn't accept reason. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. and you know, I it the other the other aspect I tell my kids all the time too is like, you know, w or when people just ask me in general, you know, coming out of Iceland or whatever, like, why do you compete and you know, I you know, as you said, I've been competing now since my first meet was two thousand and two. the reason I compete is because it's the only thing that keeps me in the weight room sometimes, right? It's like the motivation of like, okay, I have a meet, now I know I need to train, right? I I know I need to get on a cycle. And again, even if I miss those training sessions because of life and work and all of that stuff, I still have an end goal there that's there. So, that's it helps me keep motivated 'cause it'd be easier to sit back and watch T V every night and not train and do other things. But, you know, and as my wife tells me she'd like to keep me around and not get out of shape and and unhealthy and whatnot. So Josh Rohr: So in addition to yeah, and we obviously don't have time to go through all of this because you are involved in a lot, but I guess what's the motivation to to get involved in this sport outside of just being a lifter? Like, you know, some of your leadership roles, some of the coaching, all that, like what where's that come from? Like what's the desire to do all those things? Eric Cordeiro: I think my own personal desire is just I I really think the sport has given me a lot, right? it's given me you know, my own struggles and life of confidence and my own struggles in life of goal setting. you know, and and that has given me a space to to do some of the things that you know, to to to have the confidence in my own life. as far as involvement and goes, I just I I I I want to give back the sport that's obsessed. I I want to give back as much as I can. you know, and there everybody gives back in a in a certain different way, right? you know, there's obviously people who give back in different ways. But I I just there it's such a low bar sometimes to get involved, right? Even just to l help at local meets, whether that's spotting and loading, whether that's refereeing and all those things and I I want to to be able to have, you know, you know, meets, powerlifting meets that other people can find the joy that I find joy in the sport, right? So if I'm not running a meet or, you know, I felt like this for a long time. if I if I wasn't running a meet, there was gonna be no meets. you know, we've had meet directors come and go over the years. Sometimes I'll be more active as a meet director and when we get more meet more meet directors, I'll pull back a little bit because I feel like I don't have to do all of that stuff. But even just finding referees to do local meets sometimes can be difficult. I mean, you you've run meets before, plenty of meets before, you know, and and we need we need to be able to to grow the sport. And the way to grow the sport is to get people involved in the sport. Right. unfortunately, you know, I'll I'll take it back to the training thing. I think some people get way too involved sometimes and too fast and that also burns them out. I I can't, you know, I I go over a list of referees that I've had over the years. And I was like, man, that person used to do every single meet I ever had, right? And all of a sudden I don't see them anymore. And I think that's another kind of version of our personalities in the sport and overdoing it. But you know, USA powerlifting has, I think, last year and whatever, around twenty-five thousand members, right? And I always say, like, if if we could get, you know, five percent of those members to just step into certain roles, whether it's refereeing, whether it's meet directing, whether it's just committees committees that we have, right? And being vocal and active, you know, that would make our organization better and stronger. Right. you know, I I think about the people who kind came before me. you know, and I'd said this actually had said this in Iceland to somebody was that at this point in my life I f I feel that I I'm a steward of the organization, right? the organization that was established in you know nineteen eighty one. it's our responsibility to pass this on to somebody else, right? So we're at forty five years come November. You know, it's my responsibility to keep this thing running and to grow it as much as I can so the next person can also ha enjoy the things that I've enjoyed. Right. and I and that's really I think become more of my approach more than anything. you know, and and getting people to to be involved. Aga again it's important. It's important, it's a l like I said, it's a low bar. I'm not to repeat myself, but it's a low bar and I think people more people are involved the the better our sport's going to in the long. Josh Rohr: So that leads me into what my next question was gonna be. Is it was gonna be more specifically about why USA powerlifting? why are you why are you so pro USA powerlifting? There's a there's a million different organizations out there and for I guess people listening that maybe finding their way to the sport is what's the difference? Isn't it isn't it just a bunch of people that wanna lift weights? why why does it matter? Eric Cordeiro: So why that's a great question because, I go back to my my fans part, right? So I used to before I was actually a competitor in the nineties, one of the bet magazine that was out was powerlifting USA. I used to go to Tower Records for us older people. We'd go to and get a a magazine off the shelf and I'd read programs and do programs and stuff like that. And so when I first started buy buying magazines, we weren't even you know, we we weren't even USA powerlifting at that moment. Right. We're still the American Drug Free Barrellifting Association. And then within that time period we change over and adopt a new name. but you know, when I started looking around for meets and you know, I've I've never taken any in performance enhancing drugs whatsoever, there is a my background before I got into lifting, I was really big into I grew up in the punk and hardcore scene in Boston. there's a term called straight edge. what some people don't know, but it was this idea of like no drugs and no drinking and all that stuff. And and even though I a lot some of those aspects I I didn't follow, I I still enjoy a beer and very much so, but like the idea of putting stuff in my in my body, especially performance enhancing drugs, never appealed to me, right? I and certainly appeals to other people, which is fine. So long story short, when I started looking for meets, USA powerlifting, that was one was on the calendar. it it had been around in Massachusetts and I selected that meet. And, over the years of the more I've looked into it, the more I've studied it, I realized that, you know, you know, to quote Larry Maile a couple of years ago, he the United States is one of the dirtiest countries in the world, right? we know this, right? that, it's it's performance enhancing drugs is is pretty widespread and rampant. I remember being high school. I remember, you know, high school in its my twenties, how many people I knew that were taking just to take just because they wanted to look good. Right. you know, and I think, you know, ethically and morally, especially now as a teacher, right? I feel like that it's really hard for me to tell people to this is this is a journey of fitness and lifestyle, right? And say, but it's okay also okay for you to do these things, right? you know, because because there has been enough evidence over the years that it's it's harmful to your body. Right. so, you know, it it's hard for me to say, okay, I'm gonna go lift somewhere else where they're not testing, but but you as kids, you should be you should stay over here. Right. so I I think that's part of it. I and I really and I really appreciate, you know brother Bennet and the other four four fat founding members ideal of trying to clean up the platform. You know, what the thing about USA powerlifting has done is more than anything, it's that it's it's a clean platform for everybody. Right. So I'm I'm not a great lifter. I mean I might have gone to Iceland. I've won some masters championships. That's fine. Right. But like when I look at my numbers and comparatively, like I'm a good solid lifter. I'm a national level lifter as a master's But my heart and soul is locally, right? I I love local meets. I love being around local meets. And it's it's hard for me to tell somebody, look, you're only the only people who should be drug tested and and have the a chance to have a clean platform are at elite lifters. Just doesn't seem fair to someone who never is going to be an elite lifter, right? there's no equity there. You know, the we we you know, the sport is about equity on the bar, right? The sport is about the bar load is It we're it's all equal, right? You all have to come do the same the same movement, and the same is you know, the same Josh Rohr: Standards. Yeah. Eric Cordeiro: rules of weights and all that stuff, right? So why don't we have the same rules for a clean platform for everybody, right? So a local lifter that comes in should have that chance to have a clean platform. Someone who goes regional should have a chance to have that clean platform, nationals and even internationals, right? You know, again, I've been around the sport a long time. I I back to the I'm not a great lifter, but like I have l plenty of friends who are international lifters who've competed internationally over the years. And especially in the early ninety or the early part when the the USA powerlifting was involved with our previous international organization, people would be like, yeah, my competitors are just talking about what they're using the whole time. Like they're asking us what we're using and we weren't using, right? So you know, internationally I think it's it's been an issue as well. Right. So, you know, and that goes back to a cultural aspect. You know, that goes back to go back to what I talked about earlier. Is, you know, the culture of some countries don't see it as a problem. Right. They see that as winning and they see that as part of the sport. but I think we we've had enough time here to realize that it is not you know, it is not something we want part of the sport. Josh Rohr: So I don't know what the exact question is, but I guess there there's some people that I hear that, you know, they're they just want somewhere to compete. They don't really care. They know what they know they're clean. So what difference does it make? Like what why why does why does it matter that USA powerlifting is testing at every level, I guess? And isn't it this is kind of opening to floodgates, but isn't it if if the if the organization is drug tested, what's the difference? isn't it the same thing? Eric Cordeiro: Well, I think there's two parts to that question, right? Because if someone doesn't care and they just want to do it for fun, it's part of me is like, that's fine, right? Like, you know, I I have some friends, you know, friend Eric that lives in in Connecticut who runs a completely different organization. It's an unclean organization, right? He gets other people, there are other organiz you know, that are clean that lift there. And that's what you want to do. That that's fine, I guess, in a lot of ways, right? Like I have I have no issue with that. I think in the long run though, the stronger we can make a community that says we want a clean sport, we want to have clean platforms, right? you know, I I I think that's more important. I think you know, i i it more recently, organizations who ban equipment, certain equipment and stuff like that, for me, the outrage over knee sleeves, right, compared to the the lack of outrage over drug testing just baffles me, right. And, ethically I think that is that is something that that really needs to be looked into a little bit more, right? I don't know. It it it's a hard it's hard to answer, right? You know, again, and and I know you and I know a lot of the same people, or or types of people that just want to go and compete and do their best. So you know, I I think I I also think partly is that we haven't had enough scandal recently. Right. We we are so comfortable in the US that USA powerlifting established a very kind of clean environment, right? Not to say everybody's clean. We know that we catch people all the time and even some top lifters, you know, you could question whether th they they're they're clean or not. But you know, I I think you know, we we created kind of a a false sense of like er the sport's clean. But it doesn't take that long to go back and realize that it's not, right? thirty years sounds long, but thirty years ago nobody that was at the top level I shouldn't say nobody, a large percentage of the people at the top level weren't clean, right? you know, and I and Josh Rohr: And that that was before drug testing, basically, right? Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, right. that's that that well, it was before our involvement too, right? w what people f I think failed to miss is that, brother Bennet's idea of drug testing in nineteen eighty one was new everywhere, right? nobody had done it. Even the Olympics was barely doing it, right? and you know, I think in some ways you could almost credit him for sparing an intro international movement as well, right? This idea of of of a clean sport. So i over the years, things have obviously evolved. but I I think, you know, w when I think about w Ben Morito, who just passed away, Ray Ben Marito, who's one of pr arguably one of our greatest lifters ever for USA powerlifting, right? I mean, think Josh you'd agree on that. clear, clear one of the great lifters. He was putting up massive numbers and he chose to stay with USA powerlifting instead of going somewhere else, right? He chose to be here because the the moral code of of a clean sport and to represent a clean sport, he always lifted with us, right? and and a time when there were other options. And there were a time when guys went back and forth, right? To to international non dress drug tested back to back and forth to ADFPA. He chose to always stay with us. And I always think about guys like that. And there are a couple more, but he's the w the guy that obviously stands out, who always were like, Yeah, w we are USA powerlifting lifters. This is this is the legacy that we want to to keep. I don't know if I answered your question. Josh Rohr: Y y yeah, y to a degree. I guess I guess the thing that that always goes back and forth in my head is like some people don't care if they're competing against people that are tested or not. And some people do. So as an organization, like what is our responsibility? Is our responsibility to the lifters? Is it to the majority's opinion or Or is it too l let's say let's say eight out of ten people don't care if they're competing against people that are clean or not, but two of do. Those two people have to have somewhere to go compete that is a clean platform, right? where c where where can they find that? Eric Cordeiro: I they could they can find that here, right? you know, I I think more people again, this I this false idea that we're the whole sport's clean again, Josh Rohr: And I made up those numbers like those are just arbitrary Eric Cordeiro: No, I understand, but this false false idea that this whole sport's clean, I and I think that's an important part of that, right? Like I think peop we we we're living in a time period we don't see a lot of like failures and sing stuff like that for multiple reasons, but I think I think we have to have this. I think this is this is a place that we need to be, right? And and USA powerlifting has taken heat about how we do drug testing. And I I'll go off a little bit off of this as well, is that like you know, in in the late nineties when wada was established, the idea of wada is great, in a lot of aspects of of what they're trying to do. The research, right? The the stuff that they come up with, the the hiring of scientists and all that stuff. But what it has essentially done is create a monopoly of drug testing, right? back to my equity problem, right? This is my equity problem, right? It's created a monopoly of drug testing of who's allowed to drug test and who's not allowed to drug test. And you know what? usa powerlifting has has certainly taken some heat about like us doing kind of in-house drug testing. You know, I think a large, you know, I I think that hurts us personally, like Josh and you And myself and other people in the top organization, because I think all we are passionate about keeping the sport clean. That's our goal. My goal is to catch somebody. If I'm drug testing you, I'm I'm drug testing you because I think, there might be a chance, right? I'm not accusing you, but there there could be a chance, right? That's the that's the thing about drug testing. And I've always considered I always tell people when I drug test them, this it's an honor to get drug tested. You're so good when you think maybe he's not clean, right? But you were so good that you're at that level. But the problem with wada right now is that it's it again, you you can only have there's only one testing organization in the whole country. It's a massive quantity of money to drug test. you know, one of our one of our meet directors in New Jersey, who also runs weightlifting meets, John Dalessio, he had called to ask how much to test a USA weightlifting meet was a local one. They you know, Usada wanted $10,000 to do two tests, right? So That's not gonna come be equitable, right? We know that's not gonna be equitable. so you know, I think we have certainly is our is our drug testing perfect? No, nothing will ever, ever be perfect, right? The we we're gonna find people who know how to cheat the system. We're gonna find people inside that might even try to cheat the system. But the goal is always has to be that, you know, there's good there's good people out there who want to uphold the the vision ideas that this organization was founded on, right? and, you know, to to test, to continue to test, to test at a local level at local meets, I think that's the most important thing right now. And, you know, we are testing thousands of lifters a year. and we are catching people, right? Do we catch everybody? No. I think there's a stat out there that talks about, you know, you need to test three or four times. I I gotta find a paper The funny thing is there's been a recent paper and I gotta r relocate it 'cause I can't find it right now, from actually a doctor within wada who basically says, What we're doing, right, our model is actually the model of how we catch people. You test them early, you test them often, right? And that's how you catch people. 'Cause once they get to that upper level, they either have figured out how to cheat the system or they have cut back enough they don't have to do what they used to do d to to be on the top anymore. So, w w it's important to just continue to to do what we believe in. Josh Rohr: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a interesting thing you said too is once you're at the top, maybe you cycle off and now you're quote unquote clean again. So if you've been a l quote unquote local level intermediate lifter for ten years, but during that ten years you've been on never tested and now take y have gotten to that top level, well that's where you could argue like they would have been caught during that ten 10 year period in USA powerlifting because they would have probably been tested multiple times versus somebody versus somewhere else where they don't test locally. So I guess that's my next question. do you want to get into into that, I guess I think there's there's perception that a drug drug tested organization is a drug tested organization point blank. So there's no difference. Do you want to kind of talk about the distinction there? Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, again some of some of this does have to do with wada and the issues around wada. So, it's a probably take a little bit longer. We probably get to do a whole podcast just simply on drug testing and and the problems around it. But you know, again, we are testing we we changed our threshold of testing to five percent. And I know you talked about that in last podcast, so and I go deep into that. But we're also testing for more, right? For years it was test testosterone testing. Now we're testing for everything, right? and when we catch people, the large majority back to that idea is locally. Right, it actually is locally. R once in a while we catch people in nationals and stuff like that, but we catch people in the early stages before they move on. You know, and I always think about this, right? Like, and and when we talk about people who've been caught and ex imagine standing on an international stage winning a you know, in a world championship. and I believe probably a best example of this is Wei Ling Chen, who's who is a power lifter and a weightlifter. She placed, I think, fourth in is originally in weightlifting one year. All three competitors later on were popped, right? And you can't stand on that podium as a gold medalist, right? I mean that's Yeah. I mean that that Josh Rohr: And hear the y you never get to hear your national anthem, you're never on the podium. And yeah. I I know that Eric Cordeiro: is the that that just took something away, right? And nationally or internationally, I I think that takes away from the the athlete. yeah, e even locally. Josh Rohr: Even locally. I I mean y you play you you placed fourth at a local meet in one of the top three pops. That robbed you of that opportunity to be on the podium. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. there's obviously different iterations of drug testing all in different organizations around the United States right now. We our ours is five percent, you know, and we test records. So actually the numbers will probably play out we we're testing eight to ten percent. Last year we the last couple of years we were actually testing around twelve to fifteen percent of our lifters because of records and be we always went over. Right. So we're always rounded up. So when you start rounding up and you start doing that over hundreds of meets, you're always gonna be over ten percent. So we'll we'll probably land around eight or ten percent by the time this is done. you know, our the new the new organization that popped up in the last five years to be part of our old international affiliate, you powerlifting America. As far as I I can tell by Usada's numbers, they probably have about fifty eight to sixty tests a year, right? i nothing locally when you look at the names and when you look when they appear onto the list they're appearing after national meets there's probably some om t taking place during that time period to right but you know it's it's fifty I I think I just looked at the numbers fifty eight so far this year. you know and it it's top level lifters, right? there are lifters who left us and but this goes back to the do you want to t compete in an area that's untested? There's lifters who left us who haven't competed haven't been knowingly drug tested at least in the last four or five years, right? so there's there's no way of knowing that whether or not they're they're being drug tested. You know, they're they're not normally putting dates on things, they're not normally releasing all that information for people to to collect. And and again, we are very public about what we do. We're one of the few organizations that actually you can go online and and look up and see who's been drug tested, right? when they've been drug tested. You can see our failures. that exist. Usada actually I think does an okay job, especially worldwide, because they do at least put a list up of who's drug tested. So you can actually go to that list, basically just do look up athlete testing history on US Usada and you can sort it out. Again, it doesn't give you exact dates, but it gives you names. it also gives you failures when you when you go to their sanctions page as well. but but we're very open about what we're doing. and and again, this is back to our issues of Wada. W Wada has made the argument that this is a algorithm that they use, that they don't want to release data about when people get tested, right? Because that will notify people when they get tested. I don't know how accurate that is. I I'm not a scientist, I'm a history teacher. I my degree's in history from Harvard. but I Josh Rohr: From Harvard. Eric Cordeiro: yeah, my master's is from Harvard. Yeah. Yeah. Josh Rohr: No kidding. Didn't know that. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. So but you know, it like I I don't know the exact thing on that, but I you know, as lifters, we where people are coming, right? There's always this case years ago, the Canadian lifter slips my my name, i'll think of it. Where they're like, well, they caught him on the OMT two month, two weeks, three weeks after he competed, and that's how you catch people. But over and over again, if you look at the list that people get caught, almost all of them are getting caught in meet, right? There's a handful that get caught out of meet, and everybody says out of meet's better, out of meet's better. the evidence that's there doesn't add up to me. So when you look at sanction lists and you see people being caught in int at low at meets, you know, certainly there are people who don't know how to cheat the system. but you know, in meet testing still works, right? It it's in contest kit testing is important. You know. And and I you know, I will back to like, you know, funny thing, I remember talking to Jen Thompson about this once and, you know, she had she had said to me, I she goes, I realized it changed because we were at world championships and she was with somebody, I forget who it was, but set a world record and I think Jen was placed second or something like that or first. I don't remember what year it was. And she she said to this person just set a world record, she says, w well, I'll see you in the drug testing room and she they're like, What are you talking about? And they're like, Well, it used to be where you get drug tested, you set a world record in the podium, right? And they're like, No, nobody talked to me about getting drug tested and the person never was drug tested. And I and I always think about that c you know, she told me because it's like she saw the change, right? She saw the switch over from let's try to catch as many people we can to let's be compliant with wada. Right. so I I I I th again I think that's an issue that we just have, right? Is compliance more important than catching the the people who are cheating? Right. Josh Rohr: And they should be the same it should be the same. that's the part that always bothered me is if if if if wada's the gold standard of testing, like they should be about catching people. Like those two things should not be s separate ideas. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. And I and just as my opinion, just from reading and looking this up, I I almost feel like there's like two aspects of wada, right? It's those it's the people that are really like us that want to catch people that are in the labs and working in the labs, right? and and and trying to catch people. And then there is the business side or the bureaucra bureaucracy side of it, right? That where it's like, you know, looking at money and and do you wanna have do you wanna h have so many people popping for drug tests in sports, right? Like I mean I mean Josh Rohr: Right. Yeah, 'cause that does it looks it looks bad from the outside. there's a drug problem. Well, there's no there's quote unquote no drug problem if people aren't failing tests. So if you don't test, now now visa Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. Josh Rohr: V there's no problem. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, and and there's a lot of ways around this. Like, you know, you know, I think there's some recent high profile stuff about people missing, you know, their window of testing. I I have always have a hard time believing that I always have a hard time believing that story, right? Like I've been on the the registered trading registered testing pool for USA powerlifting. Yeah, I have I made me errors on my thing, yes. But like reality is is is I missed it. I'm I screwed up. I have a hard time believing that. I always have a hard time believing that something wrong with my supplements. Again, I I'm not a top level lifter, but I make sure when I take stuff, I'm not taking stuff that like I will look around and make sure there's nothing in that, you know. And and people do make mistakes. I'm not saying that people don't make mistakes, but you know, it it gets harder and harder to believe when you hear the same stories over and over again about how people are getting caught, right? or not getting caught, you know. But even like getting caught, right? there's a there was a case of a lifter from South America that like the rumors are out that that person was caught. It took months, months before they would actually release that name, right? and I think partly because there was a big lifter n you know, name. I'm sure there was some legal stuff into it as as well, but it it makes it leaves a a sour taste in your mouth when you feel like Why not just come out and say this person is suspended, right? So Josh Rohr: Well we kind of deviated from the original idea here. I was I was wanting to talk to you about Eric the lifter. I know we got off on a tangent, but I guess we have a few minutes left. Let's circle back just Eric Cordeiro: Yeah. Josh Rohr: to your overall experience in Iceland. Like I know we talked about it real real briefly in your in your beginning, but like what was it like in Iceland? How did what was the trip like? Eric Cordeiro: So Iceland's beautiful. This is my first time in Iceland. I I wish I saw more of Iceland than I c had a chance to. I was involved in the meet both days. I announced the other time that I wasn't lifting. I mean, phenomenal experience. yeah, the countryside, you know, there's people certainly there's people saw way more than I got a chance to see. But you know, I've traveled to Europe plenty of times. being in that environment. seeing that culture was was great. you know, seeing stuff for the first time, you know, was phenomenal. you know, the the the the warm up room, you know, Gretar over there is it's one of the oldest gyms. It is the oldest kind of powerlifting gym in in all of of Iceland. Matter of fact, I was myself and Paulie were in Steinman were involved in, you know, recruiting Gretar when, we we were kind of were kind of In a position that we needed to find somebody the spring because of issues we had trying to get on the calendar. And Gretar jumps right in and says, Well, I'll do it. Right. and you know, it was kind of cool going to a place that had history, right? I mean, he he literally had squat racks from weightlifting because they also do weightlifting there from like the nineteen seven nineteen sixties, right? And like a th a 40-year-old safety squat bar that was made, right? it was just you could you could feel the history and the passion that was there. and one of the things I said to somebody is that in the it was in in his facility, which again is a little bit different, but you he Gretar said to me, I would really like to do it here. He really wanted it to be and I think he did this, make it not only a celebration of lifting, but a celebration of their culture, right? And a celebration of of of weightlifting, powerlifting in general. Josh Rohr: So I did see some of the best lifters had some skin coats that they made for or something like that. Is that Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, so s yeah, so they're they're sheepskins, right? And basically Josh Rohr: Yeah, that's what it was. Eric Cordeiro: they're they're traditional, this is what they would have worn the the Norse or Vikings, if you want to call them, right, would have shown up wearing those to keep themselves warm, right? I think normally they would have some type of gold chain or whatever to hold it on. But yeah, he went out of the way to make sure that all the best the the best lifters in the open category got that, right? And and again, like that That's not something you would see in the United States, right? We would not see us doing that. You know, we we get a banner, we get this, and and the fact that he he went out of his way to like, this is what Iceland's about, and I want to show you what Iceland's about, right? I think that was a big part of it. There he had food almost every day, that was local food at the venue. you know, i it it really felt but welcoming in general, right? I mean you you f they mi went out of the way to welcome you and be part of this, right? So I I hope that partly answered the question. Yeah. Josh Rohr: Yeah, no, that that's awesome. I so I think we're we're just about out of time here, but is there any any closing thoughts or Eric Cordeiro: I I I real quick closing thought, you know, and I wanna take too long, but you know, this goes back to a couple of years ago Wade and Johnson and I were talking to people around the world and talking about international meets. And something I always remember is that somebody who we'd talked to had said, you know, we always talk in our gym about going to all these international competitions and that net guy never was able to go. And I think if we found ways to actually open up powerlifting, not just nationally, international but locally and nationally, but also internationally, having having friendlies and and ha and bringing people over to to experience different culture. I think that would be great for our sport, right? I would love to get to that point where, you know, we're we're taking a small group of people and traveling to England or to France and and competing in something. I think that would be great. I I think, you know, as an organization in itself, USA powerlifting can be a lot of things. I think a lot of times people want to put organizations into a box and say, This is what you are. I think we should be inventive. We should be trying our best to bring more people into the sport and and find this the thrill that that I have found in the sport, that you have found the sport, that other people have found in the sport. And we need to be able to kind of open our doors up and get people more involved. So I think that's that's about it. Josh Rohr: All right. Awesome. are you on social media? Can people follow you anywhere? Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, unfort unfortunately my Instagram's private because I'm a teacher, so I tried it. But if you wanna follow me, it's ECCbeast Beast on Instagram. just Josh Rohr: So you can follow him but he will not accept you. Eric Cordeiro: No, I do accept people, right? So I I don't expect high I actually don't accept high school students, right? So it's kind of a policy I have, right? So if you're in if you're under eighteen and you're high school student, I don't take you, but ECC Beast. if the the beast part is actually funnier than than it actually sounds, but we can go with that to to another time. So Josh Rohr: Okay. All right. Eric, well I appreciate the conversation. It was a lot of fun and appreciate you joining us. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, I great being on. it's nice to see you. I don't I don't get to see you enough. Josh Rohr: Yeah, I know. One of these days we'll we'll our paths will cross again sooner than later, I'm sure. cool. Eric Cordeiro: Yeah, very well. Josh Rohr: and then also everybody that's listening, we are interested in hearing from you. So if you have questions or topics you would like us to discuss on a future episode, please feel free to reach out at [email protected] No promises that we will talk about every single request, but we definitely want to answer questions and and cover topics that that people are interested in. So definitely reach out there. other than that, we will catch you all later. Eric, thanks again. We'll catch you all later. Bye. Eric Cordeiro: Thanks alot.