From Teaching to Coaching: The Importance of Understanding Motivation Styles with Stephanie Lawler

Calvin and Brooke Masters: You've counted every calorie, tried every diet, spent hours in the gym, and still something's missing. You want more than just weight loss. You want your energy back. You want your confidence restored. You want a way of living that doesn't feel like punishment. Welcome to Master Your Metabolism, where we cut through the noise, ditch the fads, and give you a real plan to become the healthiest, strongest version of you. hosted by our team of expert coaches with proven strategies, science-based tips, and real life encouragement, not just to help you lose fat, but actually create that lifestyle that you love. You've tried everything. Now, let's try what actually works. This is your turning point. Let's go. Brooke Masters: Hey there, everybody. Welcome, welcome to Master Your Metabolism. And we are here today with not just Calvin, but a very special guest, Stephanie Lawler. And we met Stephanie at a conference that we had gone to, and she discussed a topic that I found so helpful. And just her speaking and hearing her story, I just was so excited to invite her on here. And I'm so glad you said yes. But Stephanie Lawler: Yeah, okay. Brooke Masters: The topic that she was discussing was about coaching people and how everybody has a different style. And it seems so logical, but the way that she broke it down and explained it, it really does make such an impact on how we coach, how other coaches that may be listening should really think about when they are coaching a Coaching clients because it really does make a difference. It's the same thing with learning styles. Like there are certain kids that are very visual, some that are, you know, more like auditory. So understanding that there's different ways to coach people and different ways also that clients could maybe identify their style and if they are working with whatever coach to be able to communicate that and understand that. So, Stephanie. Thank you, thank you for being here. And if you could chat a little bit about it, because I know you are hosting something soon that I wanted you to talk about. So if anybody is interested in kind of learning about this, they can hear more and know more. and we will include all that information in the show notes. Stephanie Lawler: First, Brooke and Calvin, thank you so much for having me. I absolutely loved being able to meet everyone at John's event. It was fantastic. I learned 10 times more than I brought to the table, a hundred times more than I brought to the table. And that was not just through the other presentations, but just through networking and getting to know all the other coaches that were there. And it was just a really invaluable experience. So thank you for having me. you know, I my background is teaching. I came from a 20-year background in teaching. And I taught high school, I taught college, and I have been doing this for 11 years now. So I still have a little bit more investment in the education piece and what worked for me there. But what's so interesting to me is that the things that made me a good teacher, and I mentioned this in my presentation, the things that made me a good teacher have translated over into things that make me an effective coach. And I think one of those things is exactly what you mentioned, being able to understand that not everyone is motivated in the same way that we are. And When you find those clients that are motivated in that same way, a lot of times you click with them so easily and it just is a joy because you get them and they get you. But then you have those clients who just you feel like you can't get through to them. All your typical strategies for helping to get them invested in what you're doing don't seem to work, and you just end up feeling so much like a failure, like you've just not done. well by them. And I and I know I've had so many of those same frustrations. And so when I really dove dove into the psychology of this, there are about five different motivation styles. And that's exactly what I presented in John Gorman's event and what I'm putting on this Thursday. And I'll probably run that call once a month. I had so much feedback after that event from people even outside of the coaching space that we live in that were spouses of coaches that were there and came up to me and said, Wow, I'm a nurse. This would be so effective for our floor or our unit as nurses to understand how we each operate and why we're operating differently in different situations. Even people who were one of the husbands had like a machinery type business. And he said this would be so great for our team just to get to know each other better and be able to to have better interpersonal relationships. And I think that's really what it's all about. When you can get to know someone's motivation style, it really does unlock a lot about direction that you're going to move and whether that's the language or the actual execution of the plan, there are some variables that we can craft to each individual. And I think that's the end game because if we can create an ideal experience for these clients, it's going to help with our business retention. It's going to help with acquisition. But more than anything, it's about creating that experience for these clients that they could never duplicate on their own. And oftentimes it's just that these clients want to feel like you are the coach that finally hears them. We all know that there's only so many different options that we can offer as coaches. We're all writing macros, we're all doing different workout plans, but there's only so much differentiation of that under the sun. But it's these types of things that I think really help to differentiate us as coaches who truly care about our clients. And those are the kinds of pieces that that help them to know we really do care. And we really are trying to listen and create this in a way that's customized to how you operate, and I think that's that's such an important part of this whole this whole piece of coaching. Calvin Masters: Yeah, I'll say like when I went to this event with, you know, the fat muscle event, I'm coming from a bodybuilding standpoint and as a coach for that, you know, I'm there to learn about like working out and techniques and all these things. And and Stephanie Lawler: Sure. Calvin Masters: so when I when I saw the, you know, the itinerary, I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna resonate with that one. And and I'll tell you, when you got up there and started talking and it kind of explained it in the way that you did, that was one of my biggest takeaways from that whole event. Like that it just it hit me because It's one thing to be a coach, but it's another to understand the different levels, like the layers of an onion to a person to actually understand where they're coming from, to able to make that connection. Because I think most coaches know that you're gonna have a good connection with some and some you're just not gonna get them to click. And I think this is really I know this is really kind of the missing link in that is is understanding where that person's coming from. And they might not be think the way you do, but you can understand the way that they think. and be able to coach them in a much more efficient way and make them more excited about doing it because somebody understands them. Which Stephanie Lawler: Yes. Calvin Masters: this can like Sh Brooke was saying, can go to so many different professions. It's such a great technique to learn, you know. And Stephanie Lawler: Well, I really appreciate that. I do. And I I have to tell you, I was just as nervous coming into this space because I knew that there were a lot of physique and bodybuilding coaches there. And I'm thinking, my gosh, what am I gonna be able to present Calvin Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: that's gonna be valuable? So I I really do appreciate that. I came in with a lot of insecurity that what I was gonna offer was not gonna be worth it for anyone. So I really appreciate it forwards. Thank you. Calvin Masters: Yeah, very valuable. Extremely, yeah. Brooke Masters: I mean, even in relationships, right? Like I've gotten Stephanie Lawler: Correct. Brooke Masters: to learn like Calvin and him and I couldn't be more polar opposite in many ways. So I know like if I tell him a hundred things that he has to get done, like nothing. But if I give him a checklist and I know like this is what he does like, shit gets done. Calvin Masters: Yeah. It's on now. You give me a checklist and it's all over. Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: My husband and I are the same way. Brooke Masters: You know, but Stephanie Lawler: We're so different. My husband is from a MBA and finance background. So spreadsheets and numbers, and that is so different than how my creative, you know, English teacher writer brain works. And I have learned that I have to change how I present information to him so that it makes sense. And he's had to learn that about me. If he comes at me with a spreadsheet, it's just It's the end of it. Like we don't even need to have a conversation because I don't know what all these columns and highlighting and I don't know what any of that means. That's not going to motivate me in any way. So there is certainly an application just in our own personal lives and how we can understand other people better, whether that's people that we work with or people in our own families and and relationships and that Brooke Masters: Our kids. Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: absolutely with our kids for sure. Because we are constantly trying to find ways to motivate them to do the things that they need to do. And so that's a big part of it too. Brooke Masters: Yeah. And that was probably one of my first topics that I wanted to kind of delve into is being, especially both of ours, demographics of what we primarily work with, women in perimenopause, women 40 plus, you know, this is there's a lot of things that were ingrained in us as we were getting older, right? We had a life that we were taking care of our kids. We were taking care of the families, managing all of the things. That was what our identity became. Like I know as soon as I got married and we had kids, I was no longer Brooke. I was Calvin's wife. I was my kids' moms. Like, this Stephanie Lawler: Yeah. Brooke Masters: is what I was. And then as my kids got older, it was almost as if I forgot who I was and what I enjoyed. And, you know. We didn't sit and like chillax and and do anything when they were growing up. Like I was working full time, I was taking care of them, I was taking care of Calvin, making sure everybody had their appointments done. So it always felt like by the time I was done with my day, I was spent. and now just knowing and and understanding as a coach now, and after going through perimenopause and menopause, it is so vital to be able to put yourself in a different space. So you can, you will be a different person. And I am a completely different person than I was before. it's just I had to shift my identity. And for a lot of women, that's really hard to let go. Let go of I was the mom and that was my primary focus, and not having to be needed like that is really challenging for women going through perimenopause. so You know, if you can kind of chat about a little bit about what you find with some of these women and how you help them to navigate that. because for me, it it was really hard for me. it was really hard kind of having to give myself grace and understand, like, hey, it's okay to do something for yourself. It's okay, you know, to rest and chill out and find that thing. But it was really hard for me to think of what it was I actually used to love, used to enjoy. Stephanie Lawler: I can relate to that so much. Probably 12 years ago when I knew that I was transitioning out of education and I I wasn't exactly sure what that next step was going to be. And my husband and I were having so many conversations about this because he's an entrepreneur as well. And so a lot of those previous years had been exactly what you said, supporting him and his entrepreneurial journey and taking care of both of our girls. And we had a conversation when I I just kept trying to communicate with him like, I don't want to do teaching anymore. I there's something else that this world and and you know, higher powers calling me to. I just, I don't know what it is. And I I mean, I remember we were standing in our cul-de-sac. I can see it right here. And he looked at me and he said, Well, Stephanie, what are your goals? And I couldn't answer him. I literally could not answer him when he said, What do you want for yourself? What are your goals? And I remember laughing it off, sort of joking and saying, My biggest goal these days is just surviving through the day and getting everyone where they need to be. Brooke Masters: Mm-hmm. Stephanie Lawler: And all the all the tasks on my checklist done. And he just looked at me with this look of confusion. Like, how could that be your only goal? You you literally Brooke Masters: Goal. Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: don't want more for yourself than that. You have to figure that piece out because this is going to dictate where this next chapter of your life is going to go. And it stumped me for a long time. And I didn't, I wasn't able to really connect the dots then like I can now. But that's exactly what you said, Brooke. It's just My identity was so wrapped up in my responsibilities as a wife and a mom. I was working full-time. And so I knew those roles well. And I knew what the expectations were in each of them. And as exhausting as it was, that was where I found my identity and that's where I found my fulfillment. And you get to that space where your kids do start to get older and they don't need you in that same constancy or that same level that they did when they were younger. And it's there's a grief associated with that. I think there's a real grieving process that happens. And I think the women who were that come to me are most oftentimes just starting to exit out of that. I I am getting the women who are mid 40s, and so we've got the hormonal perimenopause, menopausal piece going on, but we also have this loss of identity. And they just come to me and feel completely lost. They've reached a certain place in their career. They've reached a certain place and their responsibilities as a mother, and they're not really sure what the rest of it looks like. And they are so different from the woman that they were 20 years ago when they first had children and started their career that they've just lost that. And there's a there's a sense of confusion there when you strip that title away and think, well, who am I now? What purpose do I serve? What what steps do I even begin to take that's going to be something fulfilling to me? And within all of the the responsibilities that we had before, most oftentimes women put their self dead last. I know that was the case for me, and I'm sure it was the same thing for you. It's just the Brooke Masters: Yep. Yep. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: case for for any woman that I work with is we we put ourselves last. And we always say, okay, well, I'll take care of me when all of these other things are done. And those other Brooke Masters: These are done. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: things are never done. And if they are, by the time you get to the end of the list, you're just so flat exhausted that you don't have time. And so we we all see these women that come to us and They have neglected their own health, whether that's just even doctors' appointments and labs, to not making exercise a priority, not making movement a priority, not really understanding nutrition and what that looks like and how to use that for their own goals and for their overall health. And so it really has to become an unlearning of who they used to be and now who they want to be. And I think one of the best things that we can do as coaches is help to paint that vision for them. Help to really move them into a space where They can start making themselves a priority and almost giving them that permission slip to do so. And for a lot of women, we're the first ones that tell them this is okay. It's okay that you're not running a hundred miles an hour every day, all day. I mean, I know for me that was I'm very type A. I like to go, go, go all the time. And when all of a sudden we hit this period a year and a half ago where our youngest was graduated from high school, our oldest is in college. It was like, what do we do? What do we do at three o'clock in the afternoon when I don't, excuse me, have to leave and go get her? And now it's therapy and homework and all of these other things. There's almost a sense of like laziness. Like, Brooke Masters: Yes. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: I don't even know what to do with this. I don't even know how to sit, you know, in the evenings, my husband's like, Come watch a show with me. And I had such a hard time even sitting on the couch with him for an hour, trying to really be present and enjoy this time with him because I was so used to my mind. And This has to be done and now this. And let me go check on that. That it was almost unnerving for me to try to sit there and relax. And I think it's taken me a better part of probably the last year and a half to rewire my own brain and nervous system into a little bit more of the rest and digest stage because it was just I I really feel like for pretty much all of Nealie's life I've just been in a completely sympathetic state, you know, and the damage that that can do to, you know, our hormones as well. But yeah, there is certainly that loss of identity that comes with this stage, isn't there? Brooke Masters: Yeah. And it's funny because sometimes I have to really when I sit down with some of these women, it's like, Well, what did you do before you were married? And they're like, I don't even But it is Calvin Masters: Drank and partied. Stephanie Lawler: Yeah. Go home. would come home every day. I, you know, I was teaching, so I'd do my workout at school. We had a great gym space. And I remember I would come home probably four o'clock in the afternoon and watch Days of Our Lives. How that doesn't date me, right? Days of Our Lives Brooke Masters: my gosh. Stephanie Lawler: and have a glass of wine, right? Or go meet up with the the crew after school for a couple of beers. And you just think back and think, that was it? What did I do with the rest of my waking hours? It's so crazy to think. Brooke Masters: Yeah, we had to even go farther back. And it Calvin will attest to this. Like, I had to think when I was younger, like way younger. And I'm like, I remember I picked up a book of word finds. I'm like, my gosh, Stephanie Lawler: Ha ha ha. Brooke Masters: when I was in like grade school, I'm like, but I was really good. And it was something that I found. And that was like one of the first things that I'm like, my gosh, I actually do feel like calm. And this is really nice. There was no screens. I just had something to focus on. So my brain wasn't thinking of my to-do list. And I literally was sitting down just being present with that. And that was my first step of like finding the one thing. And then like, hey, music. And and it's sometimes you do, you have to work very closely with these clients to be able to have them start to really think because they've never had the time to sit and do that. Stephanie Lawler: No, I I remember for me I'm an avid reader and it's part of what brought me into my my my profession. I love to read, I love to write, and getting back to that piece where I would actually read something for enjoyment, not a self-help book, not a right, Brooke Masters: Education. Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: not nothing that was going to be educational, but just literally books for pleasure. And it was so foreign to me. And, you know, the entire time I c like I said, it would take me several chapters to get into the book to actually be enough to relax my mind and remember I do enjoy this. And it's okay that I take this time. Everything else is done. The list is finished. I can actually sit here and enjoy this. Or to your point, going out to concerts again. My husband and I love music. Brooke Masters: Mm-hmm. Stephanie Lawler: And so to reconnect back as a couple to the things that we enjoy and being able to take that time together, it's something that I'm so thankful that I have been through that experience and having to find myself again in in a new way. And I'm sure you feel the exact same way so that we can guide other women there. You know, I'm a big believer in we need that next step friend. We need the the women who have paved the path for us and how important that is to have them in our lives so that they can guide us, whether that's coming from a coach or, you know, a a friend who's a decade older, just someone who's who's gone through it and can help you step through that too. But it's just such a blessing to be able to lead other women through that too. Calvin Masters: Yeah, I can see it. And like and it looks and it was almost like they have gone through the motherhood phase and then they come out on the other side and then they try to figure out what it is that they want to do, but they feel like they're older now and they shouldn't be doing these things anymore. Like going to concerts, you know, and doing the things Stephanie Lawler: Right. Calvin Masters: that were just kind of self indulging, you know. Like, you know, even with Brooke, we I I saw it with her and so, you know, I was it took me a minute to get her to start going back out again. And we're still working on it. You know, you know, our kids Stephanie Lawler: Sure. Calvin Masters: are getting older now and Just telling her, I'm like, we need to have a night where you just go out and just don't care and just dance. And I'm the worst dancer in the world, but I'll do it, you know, because we're gonna have some fun doing it, you know, Stephanie Lawler: That's right. Calvin Masters: in the process. But they but there was a while that we would go out and and she would just look like she's looking at her watch, just ready to go back. Like, are you are you okay? Are you good? Did you have enough fun? We can go back home now. You know, because it was very difficult for her to get into that mindset of being out and just not having to do something, just just enjoying the moment. And you know, and so I mean, even vacations, we didn't even do our first vacation until two years ago. Stephanie Lawler: Right. Brooke Masters: Yeah. Calvin Masters: Twenty-five years of marriage. And that was uncomfortable for us because Stephanie Lawler: Sure. Calvin Masters: it was after that phase because we're constantly in our minds worrying about something back home, which is, you know, so you have to get out and you have to go and do those things and you kind of like you were saying, reconnect with your younger self Stephanie Lawler: Yeah. Calvin Masters: because you remember what it was that you loved then when you didn't have these things. And that was root when you were happy and and you felt free. But that's how you kinda find the new things that you like. You know, and so it Stephanie Lawler: So true. Well, and I've even found that so much of of my identity as a mother all that also extended into our social circle. You become friends with the parents of your your kids' friends. And Brooke Masters: Kids. Mm-hmm. Stephanie Lawler: as they all start to grow and find different pathways, you find that sometimes those relationships were really just solidified by the kids. And when you take that part away, I felt like I lost a lot of friendships along the way. And You know, I'm I'm a big believer in evolution and you don't just have to be the same person or be friends with the same people. You always were just because. But I remember that feeling like a loss as well. Like who would I even go do anything with? I don't even have any real friends that are mine because I haven't had I'd never made that a priority to really foster those relationships. It was just the built-in Brooke Masters: Yes. Stephanie Lawler: easy ones because of our kids. So even that, you know, finding things that I can go and do with with other women and it really enjoying their company, just forgetting how much I need that and you Calvin, same same like you were saying, for Elaine and I to go out and do things together as a couple because our youngest is special needs. It was probably a year and a half ago, the first trip that we ever took without her, with without the girls, because it was always so difficult for us to do any kind of trip away. You know, even with parents, it's just it's different with special needs kids. And it was very strange. You know, same thing for like the first day, I'm like, I don't even know. Like, what do we even talk about? We we haven't been away on a vacation with the two of us, just the two of us, and I don't even remember like our honeymoon, you know, soon after we were married. So there are all such different dynamics and and just new pieces that you have to to reconnect to and with. Because I I have a good friend, and the other part of this conversation is being in the sandwich stage between raising our own children and then having to in some way parent our parents, you know, so there's that Brooke Masters: Yep. Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: sandwich stage that's involved too. And I was having a conversation with a dear friend and her mom's in her seventies, the same age as my mom. And she said, you know, my mom is just so lonely. And her mom has talked to her about that. And she said frankly to her mom, But mom, that's the problem is you never fostered relationships when you were in your 50s. And now that you're in your 70s, you do feel alone because those friendships are gone. And it Brooke Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: it just really hit me like a ton of bricks because here I sit at fifty one and I think, I don't want that at 70. Brooke Masters: Yep. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: I don't want to look around and have no support, no friendships, nothing that makes me feel like I'm a part of something. And that's going by so fast. That's I mean, that's coming up. So Brooke Masters: Yes. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: I think anyone who's listening that's in our same age range, it's a it's a a great lesson and an important piece to remember that we do have to continue to foster those relationships because those are gonna be the things that carry us through a lot of transition that we're gonna be facing. Loss of parents and, you know, all the things that come with with aging and and how important that that piece is too. Calvin Masters: That's a great point. You know, I think I think it's probably very common that we just rely on our spouse to be our entertainment. We just kinda get used to that and and Brooke Masters: He's pretty funny though. Stephanie Lawler: Ha ha ha. Calvin Masters: we well, not purposely, but no, I'm just kidding. But no but it is you kind of do that because you get used to just just being the two of you and having that. And then when you have the opportunity to to go out and do things with friends, it it feels awkward almost and you know, to you have to kind of break past it. And For the reason why you said, because we shouldn't even put that pressure on each other to make I shouldn't put that pressure on Brooke to make her my main source of entertainment. Like if if she's not able to decide where to go or or want to do this, you know, it it's probably healthy for me to go call up a buddy and say, Hey, let's go get lunch, you know, and do this and have that, you know, on the outside because of the reasons you said. You know, as you get older, you're gonna wanna have those people around. You know, and I I think a lot of people fall into that hole where they don't and they're lonely. Stephanie Lawler: Yeah, I mean, this is not a conversation that's strictly isolated to women. I've seen the same thing with my husband that it's just been work and family, and he's really neglected a lot of those relationships that meant a lot to him. And these were not relationships that were rooted in our our kids. These were relationships that he's had, you know, from his college years and even before that. And that was one of the discussions that we had. It's, you know, I wanna start finding things to do with my girlfriends and you need to you need to start pouring back into those relationships too. And it's so interesting when he does, he's so fulfilled and he's so happy. And I can see it. And I love that he's really putting forth that effort to use some of this time that used to be locked up into all of these other pieces with our kids to do exactly that, to go meet his best friend for lunch or, you know, to go out on the lake or go hunt, whatever it is that they want to go and do, because I think men can feel that same sense of loneliness. And, you know, I think that's a a lot of pressure when we just put that onto our spouses to be everything, to be the entertainment, to be the, you know, the intimacy piece, to be the best friend. And to I think that's where a lot of problems come in marriages, is just with that unrealistic expectation that we can't be everything for our spouses. We'd love to be. And, you know, it's a it's a great goal, but there are other people in our lives that have to fill those those roles that are equally as important. Brooke Masters: Yep. Yep. Calvin Masters: Yeah. Brooke Masters: But I think that the aging thing is something that people don't think about until it's too late. Stephanie Lawler: You know, that's the Brooke Masters: because again, I look back and say when I was in my twenties and thirties, if I would have been like working out and really focusing on my nutrition and doing all the things like in my 40s and 50s, this would have been a hell of a lot easier, you Stephanie Lawler: Ash. Brooke Masters: know. But I think that's the same aspect Calvin Masters: Mm-hmm. Brooke Masters: is people don't think ahead until we've gotten here and then we're like, crap, we should have done something, you know? And the same goes for how. We brought up, you know, we were brought up of let me cut calories, let me cut carbs, let me, you know, I'm not gonna go to the gym because I don't wanna be bulky. And now we have to look ahead and to say, well, what is gonna happen when I'm in my sixties and my seventies and I haven't done any weight training, that I haven't really focused on my protein, I haven't really been taking care of my health. Now it's gonna happen. Stephanie Lawler: Right. Brooke Masters: Because that's a lot of the women that you have to undo all of the ears of the Atkins and the, you know, the low carbs, the keto, the Tybo, all of the things that we have been just driven into. And it it is so hard because in their minds, I just wanna I know Calvin can kind of chime in on this, but it's like, when are we cutting? When are we gonna go into the cut? Stephanie Lawler: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Calvin Masters: Living in the deficit. Just living in it. Yeah, that is no, she's right. She's right. That probably the most common issue I see with with females, and and this can be guys too, is that they just don't want to come out of the calorie deficit. They don't want to eat carbs. They don't want to do the things to kind of rehabilitate their body because they're afraid to do it. even though they're gaining weight and lower calories, they still are afraid to do it. It's almost like it's it's just embedded in their head. That's been one of the really the toughest obstacles I've probably had with coaching is getting their mind transitioned out of that and to be open to see in a new way. You know, they're coming from that Jane Fonda era, you know, where it's just work out and do aerobics and just eat salads all day, you know, and and it's nowadays we find that this is not the right thing, you know. And it is the right thing for the right time. But it's it's a phase, just like anything else, and you come around. So that's probably one of the most common things that we see is is women that are afraid to kind of come out and and do this, but when when they're brave enough to do it and take it on and follow through with it, then they get it and it changes things. But I don't know, like how would you approach that with your clients? have you found a way to really kind of make that easier? Stephanie Lawler: So I'll tell you, this is this is such a such an important part of this conversation. And I found myself kind of falling into that same trap. Even as a coach, bless you. Even as a coach with this education and knowledge and experience, I found myself really in that same almost undercurrent mindset. Like it was just a subconscious piece where, okay, I'm not going to eat more than 1600 calories. I feel good at 100 grams of carbs a day. That's all I need to eat. And really I mean, probably for the better part of a decade. And I would have points where I'd you know not be so strict. So the calories would come up, the carbs would come up. But the other piece of it was coming into this health and wellness, this fitness space at 40 was really difficult. And I was coming into this in 2015 where all of a sudden social media became such a big deal. We had all these fitness influencers, and it was so much about looking a certain way. And the route that I kind of came into. Left me with a lot of pressure to to look a certain way. And to look a certain way, I had to live a certain way. And I really felt like a lot of my credibility was tied up in my ability to maintain a six pack of abs year round. And, you know, it's only been in the last year and a half that I that I've been able to see this from the outside looking in and make these changes for myself and then be able to pass that on to my clients because. You know, I I knew it wasn't good. I knew I I was developing some disordered eating where I would not enjoy Calvin Masters: Mm-hmm. Stephanie Lawler: holidays. I wouldn't enjoy events because it wasn't in my macros. I mean, I I literally remember going out to Mexican restaurant and counting out 10 chips because that was the only, you know, that that was all I was allowing myself to fit into those macros and being so, so restricted. But I've never had to lose 50 pounds, but I also don't just easily walk around with six pack abs. For me to maintain that, I was really, really strict. But again, it it just was this mindset that if if I'm gonna be believable to my clients and I'm going to continue to move the needle on my business, I have to look this way. And it took a lot of undoing. It actually was because I did Jason's flush diet. And the coach that I worked with, she was like appalled at what my macros were. Calvin Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: And she's like, Stephanie. I'm a competitor, and the lowest I've ever had my calories were like 1800. And I'm like, what? And she Brooke Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: reversed me up to almost three. I mean, that that protocol had me at almost 300 grams of carbs a day, 80 grams of fat. My protein was back down to a lot more of a moderate range. And I was terrified to do it. I I knew I needed to do it for myself, and I really was doing it just for the learning experience of it. But I was like, that's it. I'm gonna be the heaviest I've ever been. I'm gonna Brooke Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: Blow up. I'm gonna this is gonna take forever to undo, but like I'm doing it and I'm gonna follow this to the letter. Calvin Masters: But all in. Stephanie Lawler: And I did. For those fourteen days, I hit that diet as exact as it was. And the crazy thing was, I dropped like eighteen inches, maybe Brooke Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: four or five pounds only, but like the change in my body composition just in those two weeks, but more than anything, the difference in how I felt from a sympathetic state. My energy was better, my mood was improved. Brooke Masters: Your energy was probably crazy. Sleep. Stephanie Lawler: The anxiety that I have battled since childhood was a lot less. It was just crazy, all these things. So I really just dove all in and I documented it and I've been able to share that experience with my clients. So now I can say to them, look at the changes. Even if you just want to look at the pictures, look at the changes. I came into the scare too to increase my carbs. And I'm not putting my clients most of them at 300 grams, but We're gonna step out of this 75 to 100 grams of carbs a day mentality because we need these for our help. And being able to show them and and kind of go first through that process has been a little bit easier because there is such a distrust and fear of carbs and fear of lifting and all of these pieces that we're having to go in and undo. And so I think just going through it first and being able to assure them, like this is gonna be okay. You know, it's what's the worst that's gonna happen? And having to to really reverse engineer that mindset. But yeah, it's it's a tough one to work to get beyond. Calvin Masters: It is. And it's not just the women and menopause. It's not, you know, it's it's young ones too. I I have a girl that's very young right now. And you know, she has struggled with it. I I brought her out because she was living in a deficit and her body was downregulated, lost her cycle, all the things. And it still is a is a challenge to get her. We haven't even gotten to the top of the reverse yet. She's five foot seven. That girl could eat some calories if she, you know, and we're and we're getting up her in her body's responding. The issue that I have with her is is even probably a little bit worse than what I deal with with like menopause, is she's fixated on a number. She wants Brooke Masters: The scale. Calvin Masters: to see one twenty-five again. And so she Brooke Masters: She was 11 probably when she had that. Stephanie Lawler: Right, exactly. Calvin Masters: Well, you know, it's it's it's it's very lean, very lean and so but that's the numbers. So the pictures are amazing. Like I'm like, you know, are you are you not impressed? She's like, Well Stephanie Lawler: Do you not see the work you put in and how great you look? Calvin Masters: she's like, I really want to be back to which she's Brooke Masters: Yeah. Calvin Masters: sweetest girl ever, sweetest girl, but she just is so fixated on that number and and so we're doing the reverse and her body is you know, you know how the reverse works. is you don't always see a drop in weight, but you see a change in your body composition. So the body change changes quite a bit, but the number and the scale is very misleading in a reverse. It's not like a cut. So she's like, well it's my weight's not dropping. Am I gonna 125 in the reverse? I'm like, I I can't guarantee that. But but it'll put you in a position where we can cut and you can where you weren't able to do that before. And it and it's this is where especially like what you do This is a a perfect example because I have to think the way that she thinks and find a way to get in there to make her to understand. And and for me as a as a male coach with her, that's a big challenge because I'm trying to find a way to make it click, trying to find Stephanie Lawler: Absolutely. Calvin Masters: a way. And this is where I think understanding the personality and being able to match that would be the key thing to get her to change. You know. Stephanie Lawler: And I think some of that too is with the women that I work with, they always come in with the exact same thing. They have a number. And what I have learned over the years is it's really got nothing to do with a number. It's who they were when they were that number the last time. Right. It's about, okay, when I weighed a hundred and thirty. It's not really about weighing a hundred and thirty. It was then I was happy and I felt, you know, I felt good in my my job. I felt confident in my body. There's So many other layers that are associated with that number that it's not really that number. And so that is part of the psychology that I have to kind of use with my women is, okay, well, what was it about that number? And you just have to like keep asking why, like 10 times, you know, before you finally peel back the onion enough to get to the actual answer. Well, what it was is that that number, that was the happiest I had ever been personally. I fell in love with my husband when I was that size. And you know, you can kind of just take it back that way and figure out what. what it is that that number actually represents. You know, and then the other thing that I have to do with with my clients who, same thing. They've come to me, we've worked together, we got them to their goal, body composition, and then they've fallen off and then they come back and they want to get back to that. And they will say to me, and I know I've said this to myself, I don't understand why I don't weigh that anymore, why I don't look the way I do anymore. I'm doing the same things. Brooke Masters: Mm-hmm. Stephanie Lawler: And so then we have to really have the conversation But are you really? Are you really doing the exact same things? And are you doing them to the level and intention that you were before? And again, I I've only been able to pull off my own experience, but that's something that I've been able to share too. I can go back and look at pictures 2018, 2019, when I was my most lean and my favorite body composition. And I can say generally, well, I'm doing the same things. I eat clean, I work out, I get my steps in, my prioritizing my sleep. But am I really? No, I'm really not. I am still going to the gym, but then that was two and a half hours at the gym, six days a week. That was, you know, every macro accounted for and never ever deviating from that. So generally I'm doing the same things, but I'm really not to that same depth and level. And so then it becomes a conversation of are you willing to do those things again to the depth and level of and intention that you were? To get that same result. And, you know, this is that life kind of transition piece. I know for myself I'm not. I I go back and I grieve that I used to look a certain way and I don't anymore. But when I really step back and remember what it took to achieve that and maintain that, I'm not willing to do that anymore. So I'm not the leanest coach out there. I'm not the most jacked coach out there, but my labs look entirely better. My mindset is better. I'm happier. I have a much better balance and a much better relationship. With that health and and fitness side. So that's another piece where I'm able to kind of use my own experience to step women back and say, you know, what did it actually take? And what variables are different then than they are now? Right? Then you were not in perimenopause. And so hormonally, it looked totally different. Brooke Masters: Yep. Yep. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: and then look at where we are now. And we've got to really draw from these differences and acknowledge them as part of that, you know. So Calvin Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: Can you battle through it? Yeah, of course, but are you willing to do that again? Brooke Masters: But I think some of the women are like, I will push and I'll go really hard. Okay. But your body is not at the same level. And especially Stephanie Lawler: Sure, yeah. That's right. Brooke Masters: my women that, you know, don't opt for HRT and they are not optimized if you're not, your nervous system is not going to handle it the same way. You don't have the same buffers. So Stephanie Lawler: That's right. Yep. Brooke Masters: you do, you can like I'm 53 and I was able to, you know, I stepped on stage. I've got the best shape of my life. Absolutely. But I am. on HRT and I am working with a coach and I was very mindful of what my labs look like. I was very mindful of watching to see how much I was pushing my body, giving my body breaks when it needed it, having refeeds in there. So there are ways to do it. But back in my 20s, if I did this, like I could do that with my eyes closed. But Stephanie Lawler: Absolutely. Brooke Masters: now where I am and what is what things are in my life right now. what responsibilities I have in my life right now, what responsibilities change. When my kids were toddlers, I was not jumping on stage. I could not. And you you need to think about it like that of I couldn't make that same, you know, those same things on myself of the commitment Stephanie Lawler: Sure. Brooke Masters: that I needed because it had to be divided. I had other Stephanie Lawler: Absolutely. Brooke Masters: responsibilities. So mine got taken away. Right. But now that I'm in a better place, like yes. Did I do it the wrong way when I started my forties and I didn't know perimenopause was a thing and I started getting crazy and like destroyed my body? Absolutely. I saw what happened when you don't have hormones and you try to push your body like you were in your twenties and it doesn't work. So it it can be done, but learning that it needs to be done with a little bit of more finesse as you're getting older. Stephanie Lawler: I think that's such an important that's n such an important statement, you know, and and that's the thing is you have been able to walk through that and you looked fantastic when you stepped on stage. You both did. Brooke Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: but like you said, now you have that knowledge and you understand the framework is different than it was when you were in your twenties. And so, you know, I I work with gen pop clients and and just helping them to see that same thing, not even in a in the competitive space, but just in the lifestyle piece, the framework is different now and you just have to learn how to Optimize what we have now, right? And and do the best we can with what we have. Brooke Masters: Yep. Yep. And understanding sorry, go ahead. Calvin Masters: Yeah, I look, Stephanie, I I just want to circle around to something that you said a little bit ago that I think is pretty, pretty important, you know, that you were looking at it like I don't want to go back to what I was doing to get that lean. I'm okay with where I am right now. And you know, I've seen you at at the event and I know you're in really good shape. You're not but you're not overly lean, but in great shape, you know, like very feminine. You look awesome, you don't need to change anything, right? I think a lot of girls, women, girls and women, look at weight loss as the the holy grail of attractiveness. Like losing weight makes them more attractive. And this is a big issue. This is what they picture in their head. And this part's hard for me to convey that message to them to get their brain to switch over and make them understand that it's not skinniness that makes you attractive. You know, you can be super skinny and it doesn't make you more attractive. It just depends on where you are and what the look is that you're going for. But curves in a woman is good. A little bit of fat in a woman is good. I'm not saying obese. Obese is not healthy. There's Stephanie Lawler: No. Calvin Masters: a reason why you don't want to do that. But to be fit doesn't mean you're extremely skinny. You know, and I'm not sure when that became a thing that they determined that is progress and and how attractive they are. Because truth lake, stage lean. It's not attractive. You know, they see it on stage when they have the makeup on and they have the tan and everything, but but we look like shriveled up skeletons, you know, you know, we're back there and it's and it's not it's not a pleasant place, it doesn't feel good, but it's a competition, you know. Stephanie Lawler: That's right. Calvin Masters: And so it is social media had a big influence on this and what's perceived of what people look like all the time when we all know that they don't, you know. But at the same time, the weight doesn't make a woman more attractive in at least in in my point of view, I think it's all the things that come with it, just the way there's a scorecard and a show, physique is just one box. Stage presence is another. You know, it all these different boxes get checked, but everybody thinks it's just a physique. And I think it that's the same in life as I think it's just a physique, but they don't realize there's a whole package that comes with it. And it's okay to have a little bit of body fat as long as you're healthy and it's still attractive. That's a big thing that I have a hard time getting them to understand so that they don't go extreme. You know, like Stephanie Lawler: Well, and I think and I think some of that too is rooted back into the identity piece. For ten years, I feel like that was part of my identity. she's you know, that coach and she's got abs all the time and she's you know, she's pretty lean. And so it was like I knew that that wasn't healthy to continue to maintain. I didn't feel good. I don't know that I necessarily look good. It just was the identity. And so to have to let go of that and shed that and become okay with this. 51 year old body that doesn't weigh 132 anymore, but 140 and have a little, you know, a little more body fat, but be healthier physically, mentally, emotionally. But same thing. What where does where does any of that come into play? Am I less knowledgeable as a coach? Am I less credible now? Have any of my clients left me because I'm I don't have abs anymore? Absolutely not. And what's so interesting to me is I've actually had clients who have told me they feel like they can connect better to me now. And that I am more relatable because I do coach Gen Pop than I was then. That they almost saw that as something unattainable for themselves and deterred them from working with me because they just felt like whatever I was doing to get to that place, they couldn't do it or they didn't want to do it. And so, you know, again, I think it just goes back to the conversation about identity and where does all that come from? And it's exactly what you said, Calvin. It's the social media piece. And, you know, now we're seeing this with just this overabundance of GLP one use and It's just driving the number down smaller, smaller. I I see this with my 23-year-old. I remember when we walked onto the University of Alabama campus to drop her off. I was like, What? Why? I mean, my daughter is 5'8, almost 5'9, and a solid body. She swam. She's got broad swimmer shoulders. She's healthy. She's got, you know, such a great physique. But she was literally walking around like a giant in these. prepubescent bodies that were just surrounding her because they all look like that. They were all a hundred to a hundred and ten pounds, skinny as can be, no muscle mass, probably most of them don't have a cycle anymore. You know, same thing. Like that is what that that mindset is. And that's I mean, that's what she saw all the time. And you don't think that that doesn't have an effect on someone when, you know, they're walking around and they don't look like that, but you're with forty thousand other girls who do, Brooke Masters: Everybody else. Yep. Stephanie Lawler: it's it's tough. Calvin Masters: Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: And so that's Permeating younger and younger for these girls. It's really sad. Calvin Masters: It it really is. It's I I I wonder where the where their turning point is that when they're coming out like say competitors coming out of a show and they put on a little bit of fat and and look more normal, they still athletic. They're still in better shape than 95% of the population. Stephanie Lawler: That's right. Calvin Masters: but to them they're fat, you know, and they and I'm like at what point do you feel like you lose your attractiveness and who you are and you feel down on yourself and and you're embarrassed to go out when you actually look great. I have to have this conversation all the time with with Stephanie Lawler: Sure. Calvin Masters: clients. I'm like, look at your pictures and and understand that pretty much most women would kill to look the way you look right now. And you think you look horrible. You Stephanie Lawler: Absolutely. Right. Calvin Masters: know, why? And it's it's it's an issue. It's it's just a big issue that I notice is is that the self-interpretation of what they see. And I I think that's something that I would have to I gotta find a better way to really kind of get into their head with that because it can leave them in a bad place at some point and they can just be unhappy their whole life because they don't feel like they look good. If they could look like you, they'd be great. They should be great. They should be happy. You look great. And the same with Brooke, you know. I don't want her in contest for them all the time. But even when she was twenty pounds, well, I don't think she was ever twenty pounds heavier. She's pretty small. But when she was ten, fifteen pounds heavier, I still saw her as just as attractive. Stephanie Lawler: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's right. That's right. Calvin Masters: Because she checks the other boxes, you know. You know, that's the thing. And and s I just how do you handle when your clients are like that? Have you had these conversations with them? You know, like do you Stephanie Lawler: And I think it's I I don't I don't feel like I have this as much with my ladies who are in forties and fifties. I mean, definitely they want to look a certain way. And so one of the things I always do is I ask them, okay, send me a picture of like the ideal, Brooke Masters: Yes. Stephanie Lawler: right? Send me the picture of what y ideal body composition would look like to you. And so then we start to break that down because it's very rarely a picture of themselves from their younger years. It's this influencer, that influencer, right? Brooke Masters: Somebody on Instagram. Yep. Calvin Masters: Somebody from Instagram, right? Yeah. Stephanie Lawler: That's right, someone from Instagram. And you know, every now and then it's someone that I I know personally and I'm able to say, okay, well, here's what I want you to consider about her. First of all, dig back in her Instagram and find the pictures where she's with her mom. Her mom is built just like her. They are both lean, they are teeth, small Brooke Masters: Genetically, yeah. Stephanie Lawler: women genetically. She's been an athlete her entire life. She was a D1 track star, and then this and then this. So you have to understand there's a lot of mature muscle mass that she carries. because she's been an athlete her entire life. You have not. So you're not coming in with some, you know, t with that 30 years of lifting experience or 20 years, whatever it is. Like you're starting at the bottom. And it's not to say that we can't get you to a more optimal body composition, but we have to really compare apples to apples. And you know, this isn't it. And so one of the things I that's right. Brooke Masters: Yes. Realistic expectations. Stephanie Lawler: One of the things I mentioned is as much as I have fought against AI and chat GPT and all of this just because I'm And an old soul and teaching and everything else. But it's been a really cool tool is I will have them upload a picture of themselves and then use some really specific prompting in chat GPT. Okay, show me what I would look like at this weight or with this body fat percentage. And we can kind of fine-tune that and craft it until they can see the idealized version of themselves now, not the 20-year-old body before they had their four kids now. And let's optimize this version. And it's been a really neat thing because now they can see it and they're not trying to put themselves into the body of their favorite influencer that's half their age. It's them optimized. And so it's been a really neat use of of you know of of AI that wouldn't have existed for years ago. Brooke Masters: Yeah. And also just, you know, I've used it with, I had it with another client of saying if I was to optimize my nutrition and be Stephanie Lawler: Yes. Brooke Masters: strength training three days a week, you know, consistently over time, not perfect, but consistently Stephanie Lawler: Right. Brooke Masters: over time, show me what I would look like. And a lot of times them seeing that and going, huh, that's all Calvin Masters: Okay. Brooke Masters: I would have to do. Like, and I could be here, keep that on your screensaver on your phone. Stephanie Lawler: Absolutely. Brooke Masters: Like leave that there of next time that you don't want to go to the gym because life is gonna life and things are gonna come up. And once you figure out how to regulate your nervous system and how to optimize your nutrition and you are working with someone that can guide you with that aspect and your health and and all of those lifestyle factors, it's like knowing what the end, it's like having the finish line. Like you know what you're working for. The problem Stephanie Lawler: Excellent. Brooke Masters: is that people don't think that it's possible. That I never thought that I would be in the best shape of my life at 53. I could tell you at 40, I just wanted to like survive and fit back into my pants. Like, Stephanie Lawler: Yeah. Brooke Masters: but I just had it in my head that I'm just gonna be consistent. And after I was consistent, I saw it. And I'm like, huh, if I could do this, now what's next? So it's like almost having that ability to see a little bit into the future and then knowing, well, if that's possible. All I needed was that little bit of evidence to see that it was. And now I did it. Now I can do a little bit more. So again, my my end goal, like I don't compete to be pro. I compete literally to see what I'm capable of and what Stephanie Lawler: So we were. Brooke Masters: will make me improve. And again, because like you said, I didn't have 50 pounds to lose. I want to be able to go through something to be able to have, and Calvin showed me this to begin with. To have some way to relate to clients that it's hard. Like what I did to get there was hard. I know with how you were eating before, and to lose 50 pounds, 100 pounds is hard. So, in order to put me in a place that I can have some relatability, like I needed to put myself in a place that was hard, probably not as hard, but it took consistency, dedication, and overtime. So You know, having relatability. And again, I'm not, I'm not a genetically gifted Calvin will tell you, I am not. I am SpongeBob SquarePants in a very small body. Like I have no type of physique whatsoever. my whole family, it it's just genetics were not my blessing. So, you know, I do have to work for it. I do have to do it. But, you know, people do see my before picture and they do see my after picture to know, like, you know what, like. Shit, if she could do that, like maybe she Stephanie Lawler: Right. Brooke Masters: can help me to get there. So, you know, it it is a different animal competing. And I tell people, like, it is very small part of what we do. The majority of our population that we work with is gen pop because it's it's just the competitors are just the extreme version. It's just the the next level. So a lot of our competitors started as gen pop and then decided, well, if I can do this. Let's see what's next. And I think that's is about it. And it's a little cozy. Calvin Masters: With a little coxswain. Brooke Masters: So, you know, it it's just always having to have that mindset of I'm going to continue to improve. I'm whether it be my health, whether it be my body, like whatever it is, as long as you continue to improve and continue to find th